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	<title>Comments on: sourcecode:binary::???:ppt/odp/pdf</title>
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	<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/</link>
	<description>The Blog of Bringing Things Together</description>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7945</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 13:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7945</guid>
		<description>As for your metaphor, this works quite well, actually:

sourcecode : binary :: ps : pdf

PostScript files are distilled (akin to compilation) into PDFs, but you can never positively reconstruct the PS when given only the PDF.  PostScript is a Turing-complete programming language, whereas a PDF file is just the result of the compilation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for your metaphor, this works quite well, actually:</p>
<p>sourcecode : binary :: ps : pdf</p>
<p>PostScript files are distilled (akin to compilation) into PDFs, but you can never positively reconstruct the PS when given only the PDF.  PostScript is a Turing-complete programming language, whereas a PDF file is just the result of the compilation.</p>
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		<title>By: Owo</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7890</link>
		<dc:creator>Owo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7890</guid>
		<description>It&#039;d be great to have some kind of OpenOffice integration with VCS. Something like MS Word&#039;s change control + the collaborative part.

However, right now, I think your best chance is using a plain-text format:
* LaTeX. If you need to do an high-quality publication. There&#039;s the problem of learning curve, though.
* An XML-based format like DocBook.
* A plain-text format like ReStructured Text or Markdown. If you don&#039;t need to do too fancy things with the presentation, these will be extremely easy to learn for any collaborator and you can produce output in TeX, PDF and HTML (which can give great results with some good CSS).

I&#039;m inclined to chose the last option for most stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;d be great to have some kind of OpenOffice integration with VCS. Something like MS Word&#8217;s change control + the collaborative part.</p>
<p>However, right now, I think your best chance is using a plain-text format:<br />
* LaTeX. If you need to do an high-quality publication. There&#8217;s the problem of learning curve, though.<br />
* An XML-based format like DocBook.<br />
* A plain-text format like ReStructured Text or Markdown. If you don&#8217;t need to do too fancy things with the presentation, these will be extremely easy to learn for any collaborator and you can produce output in TeX, PDF and HTML (which can give great results with some good CSS).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m inclined to chose the last option for most stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7889</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 02:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7889</guid>
		<description>I use latex for my papers and latex-beamer for my presentations and find that git plays very nicely with these tools.

I generate and edit figures as svg files in Inkscape, then export (&quot;compile&quot;) them as pdfs for pdflatex.  Committing the svg&#039;s rather than the pdfs works well for tracking small changes (text changes within a figure, or moving objects relative to each other) but tends to look like blob comparisons for large changes.  In this context (and probably the odf context as well)  it would be useful to have a tool for putting an xml file in a &quot;normalized&quot; form to give, for example, the same branch ordering for similar files.

@greg re: legacy presentations.  I think there are two useful assets here, both of which are not too hard to convert:
1) The structure and text of the presentation.
     This can be converted to TeX or HTML by hand about as quickly as
     you can read the presentation if you can touch type.
2) Reusable images and diagrams.  Saving these as png and/or pdf 
    would be pretty straightforward from openoffice/inkscape and 
   would be sufficient to make them available for TeX/HTML
   presentations.

I do both of the above to cannabalize my old odp presentations for my new latex-beamer presentations.  These steps are not rate-limiting relative to thinking about the presentation and choosing the bits that I want to reuse.

I&#039;ve switched presentation tools every couple years since 1999 (from marking up overhead transparencies with sharpies, to powerpoint, to HTML, to openoffice, to latex-beamer).  The learning difficulties for each tool were pretty similar (ok, transparencies win), and generally easier than the graphic design, writing, and public speaking aspects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use latex for my papers and latex-beamer for my presentations and find that git plays very nicely with these tools.</p>
<p>I generate and edit figures as svg files in Inkscape, then export (&#8220;compile&#8221;) them as pdfs for pdflatex.  Committing the svg&#8217;s rather than the pdfs works well for tracking small changes (text changes within a figure, or moving objects relative to each other) but tends to look like blob comparisons for large changes.  In this context (and probably the odf context as well)  it would be useful to have a tool for putting an xml file in a &#8220;normalized&#8221; form to give, for example, the same branch ordering for similar files.</p>
<p>@greg re: legacy presentations.  I think there are two useful assets here, both of which are not too hard to convert:<br />
1) The structure and text of the presentation.<br />
     This can be converted to TeX or HTML by hand about as quickly as<br />
     you can read the presentation if you can touch type.<br />
2) Reusable images and diagrams.  Saving these as png and/or pdf<br />
    would be pretty straightforward from openoffice/inkscape and<br />
   would be sufficient to make them available for TeX/HTML<br />
   presentations.</p>
<p>I do both of the above to cannabalize my old odp presentations for my new latex-beamer presentations.  These steps are not rate-limiting relative to thinking about the presentation and choosing the bits that I want to reuse.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve switched presentation tools every couple years since 1999 (from marking up overhead transparencies with sharpies, to powerpoint, to HTML, to openoffice, to latex-beamer).  The learning difficulties for each tool were pretty similar (ok, transparencies win), and generally easier than the graphic design, writing, and public speaking aspects.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Yergler</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7888</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Yergler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7888</guid>
		<description>As mentioned in a few posts on identi.ca, you could use ReStructured Text as your source; rst2s5 exists (and works pretty well); rst2odp (http://pypi.python.org/pypi/rst2odp/) lets you generate ODP &quot;blobs&quot; from the source.  You could of course add some additional scripting to convert to PPT, apply your theme of choice, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As mentioned in a few posts on identi.ca, you could use ReStructured Text as your source; rst2s5 exists (and works pretty well); rst2odp (<a href="http://pypi.python.org/pypi/rst2odp/" rel="nofollow">http://pypi.python.org/pypi/rst2odp/</a>) lets you generate ODP &#8220;blobs&#8221; from the source.  You could of course add some additional scripting to convert to PPT, apply your theme of choice, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7887</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7887</guid>
		<description>@Anonymous:  I like that idea, actually. At least then you&#039;ll be able to see what kinds of changes where made. For example, if an image was deleted/added in the &quot;images&quot; directory, or which slide was edited (each slide has its own XML file).

@Daeng: I think that would work, too (or like Aslash suggests, TeX). But the main problem I foresee is converting Powerpoint/Impress files _into_ HTML/CSS (or TeX).  Being able to use these other formats as a starting point is important because there is so much out there available right now under some Creative Commons license.

@kdt: I&#039;ll ask about Chuck during our next update call. And of COURSE I will serve as Librations Copyright Specialist! :)

@Aslash: I&#039;m not suggesting TeX because no one uses it in my line of work. And by &quot;my line of work&quot; I mean practically every line of work. Sad but true. Yes, it would solve the VCS problem, but solving that problem can not itself create a new problem of &quot;everyone should switch to TeX to create presentations because I want to use a VCS.&quot;  See reasoning that I gave Daeng. 

@Everyone: I guess I want to be able to take all of these legacy ppt/pptx/odp files and convert them into a HTML/CSS, TeX, or S5 type format, without formating loss, and with the ability to rebuild those ppt/pptx/odp files after modification. Is that so much to ask?!?! 
(I think the answer is &quot;yes&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anonymous:  I like that idea, actually. At least then you&#8217;ll be able to see what kinds of changes where made. For example, if an image was deleted/added in the &#8220;images&#8221; directory, or which slide was edited (each slide has its own XML file).</p>
<p>@Daeng: I think that would work, too (or like Aslash suggests, TeX). But the main problem I foresee is converting Powerpoint/Impress files _into_ HTML/CSS (or TeX).  Being able to use these other formats as a starting point is important because there is so much out there available right now under some Creative Commons license.</p>
<p>@kdt: I&#8217;ll ask about Chuck during our next update call. And of COURSE I will serve as Librations Copyright Specialist! :)</p>
<p>@Aslash: I&#8217;m not suggesting TeX because no one uses it in my line of work. And by &#8220;my line of work&#8221; I mean practically every line of work. Sad but true. Yes, it would solve the VCS problem, but solving that problem can not itself create a new problem of &#8220;everyone should switch to TeX to create presentations because I want to use a VCS.&#8221;  See reasoning that I gave Daeng. </p>
<p>@Everyone: I guess I want to be able to take all of these legacy ppt/pptx/odp files and convert them into a HTML/CSS, TeX, or S5 type format, without formating loss, and with the ability to rebuild those ppt/pptx/odp files after modification. Is that so much to ask?!?!<br />
(I think the answer is &#8220;yes&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Aslash</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7886</link>
		<dc:creator>Aslash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 15:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7886</guid>
		<description>Why not TeX??
I use it for all my documents, starting from papers to all my presentation. With beamer you can create every bit of presentation you get with those WYSIWYG software!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why not TeX??<br />
I use it for all my documents, starting from papers to all my presentation. With beamer you can create every bit of presentation you get with those WYSIWYG software!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Grossmeier (greg) 's status on Wednesday, 08-Jul-09 13:26:27 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7885</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Grossmeier (greg) 's status on Wednesday, 08-Jul-09 13:26:27 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 13:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7885</guid>
		<description>[...] I forgot to ask you all, what do YOU think? http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I forgot to ask you all, what do YOU think? <a href="http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: kdt</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7883</link>
		<dc:creator>kdt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:21:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7883</guid>
		<description>hey, this is slightly off-topic (i.e. not problem-solving your particular problem), but this post made me wonder if I ever told you about Chuck Ransom&#039;s idea for using hip-hop sampling as a way to teach information literacy and highlight the importance of citation in scholarly work. let&#039;s talk about that some time.

I love your description of binary blobs. I have been hoping you will serve as Librations&#039; copyright specialist, so I thought I&#039;d mention that here, too. we&#039;re going to need help choosing the right CC license... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey, this is slightly off-topic (i.e. not problem-solving your particular problem), but this post made me wonder if I ever told you about Chuck Ransom&#8217;s idea for using hip-hop sampling as a way to teach information literacy and highlight the importance of citation in scholarly work. let&#8217;s talk about that some time.</p>
<p>I love your description of binary blobs. I have been hoping you will serve as Librations&#8217; copyright specialist, so I thought I&#8217;d mention that here, too. we&#8217;re going to need help choosing the right CC license&#8230; :)</p>
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		<title>By: Daeng Bo</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7881</link>
		<dc:creator>Daeng Bo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 09:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7881</guid>
		<description>I think the perfect dvcs format for all fluid formats (docs and presentations) would be HTML5 + CSS3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the perfect dvcs format for all fluid formats (docs and presentations) would be HTML5 + CSS3.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blog.grossmeier.net/2009/07/07/sourcecodebinarypptodppdf/comment-page-1/#comment-7880</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.grossmeier.net/?p=419#comment-7880</guid>
		<description>Using ODF files kind of works if you install scripts to unzip them before commit and only check in the unzipped contents. You have to use a formatter for the XML though, because OpenOffice.org does not use newlines (at least it didn&#039;t the last time I tried).

The format, however, is very verbose and manual merges, even though now possible with a text or XML editor, may still be a pain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Using ODF files kind of works if you install scripts to unzip them before commit and only check in the unzipped contents. You have to use a formatter for the XML though, because OpenOffice.org does not use newlines (at least it didn&#8217;t the last time I tried).</p>
<p>The format, however, is very verbose and manual merges, even though now possible with a text or XML editor, may still be a pain.</p>
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